Politics

Author: Richard R. Tryon and others

What Does Abraham Lincoln Think?

ON RACE:

"What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races."

— Spoken at Springfield, Illinois on July 17th, 1858; from ABRAHAM LINCOLN: COMPLETE WORKS, 1894, Vol. 1, page 273

"See our present condition---the country engaged in war! Our White men cutting one another's throats! And then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or another.

"Why should the people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration. You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer
very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this be admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated. It is better for both, therefore, to be separated."

— Spoken at the White House to a group of black community leaders, August 14th, 1862, from COLLECTED WORKS OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN, Vol 5, page 371

"I will say, then, that I AM NOT NOR HAVE EVER BEEN in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to
intermarry with White people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the White and black races which will ever FORBID the two equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain
together, there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the White race."

— 4th Lincoln-Douglas debate, September 18th, 1858; COLLECTED WORKS Vol. 3, pp. 145-146

Abraham Lincoln
Springfield, Ill
3/30/01



AGREE with Natasha Hamilton!!

I could not have said it better in regards to Natasha's letter, "Does everyone just enjoy creating Controversy." She was right on in her comments about reparations. We all know that day will never come
(reparations) but there are other options that would be a respectful way of honoring African Americans in this country.

I have heard Horowitz speak and have heard some of the most ignorant
comments come out of a man who appears so intellegent. I have heard him use Michael Jordan and Oprah Winfrey as examples to the entire Black community as to why it is obvious oppression doesn't exist today.THis is so ridiculous, I am embarassed, as a white female, to think this white male is gaining more media attention from this entire ordeal.

LaRoyce Engebretson (engebrel@augsburg.edu)
Minneapolis, MN
3/30/01



Reparations is really a moot issue.

Last year our government gave out 339 BILLION dollars in entitlementpayments. Blacks received over half of this yet they are only 12% of the US population. During the same period blacks only paid 13 billion in taxes. This results out to a net transfer to the blacks of about 137+ billion
dollars for last year. Blacks have been getting reparations in the form of transfer payments for the last 50 years. I honestly can say that if we didn't have this group, America would be a paradise. They should be grateful that their ancestors were brought here whether free or not.

jc (WhiteAmerican@thetruth.com)
pulaski, TN
3/30/01



Earth: To White Liberals

Isn't it pretty obvious why this reparations movement is so popular? It's a freebie! But blacks are no different from whites when it comes to freebies. There is just as much white pork in our federal budget as black pork. The reparations folks may be racist and greedy but not stupid. It's pure self interest. But from reading this thread though, I think one group stands out as being about as dumb as a box of rocks. Because they not only disdain logic but also curiously work against self interest--- white liberals are an enigma. Do you W.L.s really think you are ingratiating yourself with "The Black Masses" by giving this reparation boondoggle the high five? This just in: The vast majority of black people hate your guts. What do you think you are going to get out of this? Appreciation? Love? Respect? Besides assuaging your incredibly guilty conscience, what do you hope to accomplish? How fabulously hip, sensitive and right-on you must feel. How many of the black writers in this thread who support reparations do you think would just as soon slit your throat?

To all you liberal twenty and thirty somethings that missed the real civil rights era: (you still-liberal over forty types are beyond help) From a very early age black people are taught to despise white people. It wasn't always this way in the olden days but sadly it has gotten worse. I know
this is shocking but I speak from experience. There are exceptions of course and there are many who rise above their racism. Yes racism. Blacks racist? How can that be when many of the respondents to Horowitz's article and much of the black community vehemently deny not only that they are racist, but that black people are not even CAPABLE of
racism. WHITE racists do not even make that claim! To those of you who believe this fairy tail---tsk tsk you silly white people.

Those of us liberal, enlightened, moral types who did as much as any one race would do for another during the civil rights sixties and seventies can now report back to you that if the reparations garbage is indicative of the current black population's desire, then the joke has been on us. Do
you really think those of us who fought for civil rights two generations ago will get a waiver on our tax bill when reparations are due? Even if you white liberals are willing go along with this theft and take the financial hit, how much stomach are you going to have for a Waco A Week when they try to collect from those not as enlightened and groovy as yourself?

Of course if this whole separatist scheme is merely representative of a minority of hateful black leaders then it is the responsibility of the majority of intelligent Americans of all races to denounce this malicious tripe and
resume racial progress...once again.

G.G.Yagoda
Moscow,ID
3/30/01



THIS ISSUE IS JUST TO GET OUR COLLECTIVE ATTENTION

This whole reparation for slaves is a very clever ploy,really we should accept this issue for what it is, a means to wake people up to the proposition that there are still race based problems in America (big suprise).We as a people need to come together, and stop others from
catigorizing all of us based on our differences.We are all in this nation together,and alot closer to being a united people than the seperate groups that some would have us beleive.

Lauderdale Jim
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
3/30/01



Does Everyone Just ENJOY Creating Controversy?

Its utterly fascinating to me the lengths at which people will go to create a ruckus. First, let me preface by saying that David's points have some truth, and fabulously encapsulate his free speech rights, however, my
issue is more with the turn that the commentators have taken the subject. Do you people not SEE that of the black people that wrote in, NONE actually agreed that reparations were a sensible notion? All that was requested was respect and not clutching your purse every time you are in a shopping mall with them. The more obviously pressing matter however is the issue that THERE IS NO LEGISLATION EVEN CLOSE TO BEING FORMULATED OR THAT IS GOING TO PASS (we have the rich white lawmakers of this country to thank for that) DEALING WITH
REPARATIONS! SO honestly, what IS all the fuss about? IF, in fact there were legislation being proposed (and this would only occur in light of a reelection and needing to capture minority swing voters) Even then,its just another empty promise of a shallow politician. And yet, somehow,
all of these people are widely debating the issue just obviously venting thier own grievances about race (which is obviously the real issue) I guess that it just takes a spark to light a fire. Such a pity that this country has such a long way to go before we can accept the differences of which
this nation is so proudly comprised.

Natasha Hamilton
New Brunswick, NJ
3/29/01



Ten Reasons Why Reparations, etc

Excellent piece! No sane person would ever expect to get these reparations. It is impossible for many reasons. The "so-called" black leaders keep pots such as this, the Florida ballot nonsense, quotas, etc.,boiling, is to bleed money out of the black population. Look at Al Sharpton wearing custom tailored clothing and what has he really done for his black constituency? Nothing but build racial disharmony, his real objective. Jesse Jackson, a multi-millionaire, among other things. All the decendents of that awful system of slavery alive in the U.S. today, would
never have been born at all, if their distant relatives were not brought here as slaves. A politically incorrect statement? Yes, but true!

Edward Johns
Parsippany, NJ
3/29/01


I am (shockingly) in agreement

I read about the uproar caused by Mr. Horowitz's article on why reparations to African-Americans are uncalled for. Being an African-American and also a Liberal *smile*, I almost jumped on the bandwagon that was so readily admonishing the article (most of them without reading it). I decided to collect my wits and calm down and actually READ the artical for myself... and Lordy, am I shocked!

Mr. Horowitz, you are entirely correct. Your argument against reparations is sound and factual. I, as an African-American, should not have the right to go up to my white co-workers and friends demanding monies for crimes that they did not personally condone or commit. If I could demand these monies, then I would also need to demand them
from the decendents of the Africans and Arabs who helped to sell my ancestors into slavery and the Blacks who owned slaves also.

Instead of undeserved reparations for crimes committed long ago, why not a move to improve the lives and socio-economic status of African-Americans today. All of this uproar of reparations, to me, seems to demean and overshadow the issues of bias in education and employement that exists for minorities today.

And in conclusion, how would a nice chunk of money for slavery reparations help an African-American family of low socio-economic and educational status in the long run??? Would it buy them a nice new car and house??? Probably... but what they really need (and would not get from reparations) is a better education, financial advisement, and job training.

Jo Ann McMillan (jo_ann774@yahoo.com)
Greensboro, NC
3/29/01


What if Reparations

What if reparations came about? Perhaps the solution would be to give every black head of household something on the order of $400,000 with the understanding that if they invested this wisely, they could augment a meager income, and provide for their children and their children's children, etc. One stipulation would be, however, that they and theirfamilies would be forever removed from being recipients of welfare. This would be it... nothing more-- ever. It would be understood and agreed to by those getting reparations that this is a great advantage they are getting, and as such, there would never be any further assistance for
them or their offspring (let's here it for DNA testing). If one were to think this through, we might just save a much greater sum of money over time than otherwise, and when any screamed for more welfare or assistance, it's "Sorry, you agreed to this and you misused it... you are SOL! And think what a boost this would be to a dragging economy! Naa. It'll never happen.

The Thinker; by people who lisp.
Fort Worth, Texas
3/29/01


Hypocracy from Freed Slaves

In 1821 the United States aquired land to be used as a colony for freed slaves. This colony, which became its own country in 1846, is known as Liberia. The Freed slaves in Liberia ruled the politcs there even though they were a minority. In 1930, this government run by freed slaves was
caught in a forced labor exportation scandal. For those of you who don't know what forced labor is, it's slavery. This slavery was found, by the League of Nations, to have been going on w/ full knowlege and either active or passive consent of the government.

Before the decendants of freed slaves cry about what the europeans did to them, they should look at what they did to other blacks in Africa. This was a group who, with full knowlege of how horible slavery is, allowed men to be sold into slavery. To add to the horror of their actions, this was done 70 years ago...not 150 as in the European enslavement of Africans. So if anyone owes reperations to anyone else, maybe the decendants of freed slaves need to find and offer reperations to the Liberians whom they enslaved before they cry about what they are owed.

Fed Up w/ the Whining (wolfcub64@aol.com)
San Antonio, TX and Englewood, FL
3/30/01



Truth shall set you free

The old saying goes, "The truth shall set you free..." Well, obviously, there are those who want to shadow the truth in order to gain monetarily...won't work, never has. Unfortunately, those that hide behind the lies of the few, will only reap what they sow. Hey, since I'm Irish, shouldn't I receive reparations from the Queen? Ireland is still her slave. Thanks, David...keep the truth coming, maybe some will be set free.

Olivia (violets-n-pots@hotbot.com)
Greenwood, MS
3/30/01



Reparations Plan that Will Work

Although I am not for reparations as presented by the black "leaders" because they will do more to increase separation than to heal it, I have an alternative plan for reparations. Since the black community feels so strongly about being torn from their homelands, I suggest providing reparations in the form of a one way ticket back to the African nation of their choice. Once re-located to the land of their ancestory, provide assistance in obtaining permanent housing and a job. Anyone taking advantage of the program would not be allowed to immigrate back to this country, which they hold in such disdain. Let's give them what they ask for, as opposed to outright entitlements, and see how fast the line will
form. I'm willing to allow my tax dollars to be spent for such a program.(Think of how quiet it will be)

Risky Plan
Omaha, NE
3/29/01



Reparations Will Never, Ever Be Paid. Case Closed!!!
Why do you idiots persist in arguing a non-issue? To show the world how ignorant and narrow-minded you all are? O.k., we got it. Do you Anglo-Saxons really believe your ancestors were fighting to free slaves? Is that what you were taught in school? The Civil War was about preserving the Union. It was to keep the Confederate States from seceding from the Union. That is why your ancestors fought and died. So get off your moral high horse. Your ancestors didn't care anything about the suffering and oppression of African-Americans then any more than you care about the suffering and oppression of African-Americans (or any other minority)now. John Brown and his men fought and died to free
slaves. To those Abolitionists like him, we (African-Americans) owe a debt of gratitude. People with a conscience. People who had nothing to gain by helping to free slaves, but they did it because IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. To those white brothers & sisters who marched for Civil Rights, we owe a debt of gratitude. To the rest of you worthless, soulless mothers, you can kiss my ass. You're the kind of arrogant, self-centered vermin who sat by while the Nazis invaded Europe and murdered 6 million Jews. You only got off the pot when your little microcosm was threatened by the Japanese. Stop making up excuses and re-writing history to ease your guilty consciences. You're a bunch of thankless, self-righteous, self-centered scumbags who have altogether become worthless. My consolation is that Hell will be packed full of people like you.

Zebra (macv74@anonymous.to)
3/29/01



Soul Sister #1

I'm a young black woman that is really tired hearing my black brothers and sister complain about what happened over 200 years ago. Not saying that this wasn't wrong but we now have the opportunity to make it right.

I don't believe that the African-Americans deserve this Reparation only because WE never proved to ours ancestors that we appreciated all the struggles and hardship they had gone through over the years. When I look at the nightly news today, I see my brothers killing off each other for drugs, stealing, etc. When something bad happens to them the first thing they yell is "oh, it's the white man. They keeping us down" Shut the HELL UP. I'm so sick and tired of the BULL.

Until we can stand up on our own two feet as ONE NATION we will make our ancestors proud!!!!

Jane Doe
Chicago,IL
3/30/01


Blacks can never be racist

A Black person can never be racist. We respond to being put down and most have given up. Your example of where you were and what you have become proves how our society has dumped on Black people. We are the only non-immigrants in this country.

Please don't compare us with anyone and we are not a minority. We lived thru 250 years of the worst slavery system ever produced and it was against people of African decent all over the world at one time. We lived thru all the Black Codes in the south and Jim Crowism that was intented to keep us down.

The conditions still exist to keep us down. We don't want your money. We need reparations to balance the scales. 2801 of us were lynched and no one has paid for their lost. 10 million people died in passage and insurance claims were paid to the slaveholders but no insurance was
paid to Africa.

We built America and most of our patents were stolen and we get no credit for the many inventions. Meritous Manumissions was a law in all the states rewarding Blacks for turning on one another and you have not even kept your own laws.

I can match your story of being born in a Black community with 100 examples and each one of them can not go to the bank right now and get a loan like you can. With 92% of the country calling 8% racist, what type of judgment is that. We do not control anything! We do however respond to the hopeless situation that 400 years of unfair treatment has
produced. You have paid the American Indians, Jews, Japanese, so why us?

Rev Martin, Sr.

Rev Granger R. Martin, Sr. (revmartin51@hotmail.com)
Washington, DC
3/30/01



"BZ"

In the Navy we would run up a flag signal "BZ" It means Well Done! Do not listen to the idiot left palaver. Keep up the good work.

CDR L.K.Weber USN (Ret.) (owene@aug.com)
St. Augustine, FL
3/30/01



You Are Actually Frightening

To consider the possibility that anyone could come up with such nonsense is frightening. I would pose these responses to the statements in the article.

1. To say that Black Africans and Arabs invented the American slave trade is simply not true. Yes, each had slaves, but that should excuse America for it’s actions?

2. The belief that black Americans enjoy some phenomenal prosperity doesn’t take into consideration that any prosperity only came about through great struggle.

3. The civil war was NOT about slavery. Soldiers on both sides died for MONEY not slaves.

4. All Americans benefit from the free workforce early America enjoyed.
If all can enjoy the fruits, all can share the responsibility.

5. If Africans weren’t the only group targeted for slavery the point of
racism would be valid. But that is not the case.

6. Ever heard of a movie called The Watermelon Man? To think that it is
not so hard to be black is stupid.

7. Reparations seek accountability for illegal and immoral actions.

8. There are far more whites on welfare than blacks, so how is welfare a
reparation for blacks? Racial preferences are for ALL minorities, so how
is that a reparation for blacks?

9. How could the society be based on the principle that all men are
created equal when the people who came up with that idea were slave
owners?

10. If we are so free, why are we still being lynched, racially profiled, only
in token areas of responsibility, etc.?

Ric (ricm_99@hotmail.com)
Washington, DC
3/30/01



Keep Your Damn Money........

I am a 43 year old black (don't call me african-american) male.I'm married, have three children and work two jobs.My wife also works full time. My kids are all in college - two premed, the other still undecided.
Reparations is a crock. Just another way to get something for nothing. I work for my money. The only thing I've gotten from the government was 2 unemployment checks back in '85. Brothers and sisters, get off your asses!! You want respect earn it. You want money, earn it. Respect yourself. Reparations gets you nothing but disdain from white people. Its like they bought us all over again. Stop blaming the wite man and look in the mirror. Slavery is history, unless you want to continue to be enslave by your own hatred,fear,ignorance,laziness and prejudice. Yes,
PREJUDICE. We're black, we can't be prejudiced-------BULLSHIT. We even catagorise our own people, let alone other races. Wake up people. Get out of the street. Get your kids out of the street. Get them into the library. My mother used to tell me the strongest muscle in the body is between your ears. That muscle will get our people where we want to be.
BE YOUR OWN MASTER...

MY OWN MASTER (myy_keyy@yahoo.com)
3/30/01



Would American blacks prefer to live in Africa?

I don't understand why American blacks think they deserve reparations for slavery. Although slavery was evil, Mr. Howowitz is correct in saying that African blacks participated in the slave trade and share some of the
blame. But most important, if today's blacks' ancestors had not come to
America, then they would be living in Africa today. Is that what they want? Everything Mr. Horowitz says is true. Why can't we accept the truth? Why are so many of our leaders "politically correct"? In this case it's lawyers trying to make money for themselves. In the case of some
black leaders it's a question of control--they don't want blacks to be independent and successful because then they would have no control over them. And the white politicians want the black vote. We have very few honest statesmen-like politicians anymore. But the most important question blacks need to ask themselves is would they really rather live in
Africa then in America.

Puzzled
3/30/01



Liberal education betrayed.

I just read Mr. Horowitz's ad on reparations. The content is interesting and provocative, just the material that should be part of a liberal education. There could be no clearer illustration of the transformation of elite universities than their rejection of this ad.

A truly liberal education fosters the transcending of the current "weltanshauung" or world view of a society. When the Nazis eliminated "Jewish Science"; when fundimentalist sects refuse to respect empirical process of discovery; when the soviets interpreted history through a single lens; then there is only high level indoctrination- and the a great ideal is lost.

This ad is in the best tradition of historical and sociological analysis. There is no unstated evocation of latent animus, rather each idea is clearly expressed and argued, inviting further dialogue that ideally expands understanding.

The institutions that have refused to run this ad and falsely label it as racist have lost their way. The students of these universities will never know the soaring of spirit that comes with an open mind. The concept of
academic freedom, while acting to protect each tenured professor, is meant to insure freedom of expression. When the tenured faculty perversely uses their academic freedom to stifle open discussion of unpopular ideas it is the most insidious betrayal of the underlying ideal, one that many have sacrificed for over the ages. I only hope the rejection
of this advertisement will mark the low point of the current perversion of the liberal academic ideal.

Al Rodbell (arodb@aol.com)
3/30/01


more letters ...


Get involved! Post your own comment regarding David Horowitz's
"Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks – and Racist Too".



The final conclusion of this study must be to hope that those who take the time to read will also take the time to think! In a very real way, it doesn’t matter which decision for or against black reparations you make. What counts is have you been willing to see both sides and think for yourself? While David Horowitz once wrote for those who did not want you to think for yourself, he has discovered that such was his mistake! He has worked hard to make amends or reparations if you want to call it that!